Cllr Chris Cooke Cocks-up Completely

This is Eric - Eric Der Igel - pictured going about his business one night in Eastern Germany. Hopefully, he is still safe and sound, and not used as a prickly projectile as this poor mite was in New Zealand.


Man faces five years in jail after hitting a boy with... a hedgehog

One of the most annoying traits of the Great Daily Mail Public is their inability to read stories beneath the headlines. Time after time we see examples of this as the morons make themselves look foolish. Of course, the Mail is well aware of this, and my view is that it plays on this when deciding on the wording of articles, allowing the frothing masses to read between the lines - even when the story eventually contradicts the tone of the bold print.

The hedgehog story has been covered in other papers, but the DM version is of note because of the comments. By paragraph 3 it establishes that the incident happened in New Zealand.

Send in the clowns.........

  • Five years in prison for assault with a dead(ly?) hedgehog? Backs up completely what we read elsewhere in the Daily Mail today - that Government Ministers are concerned the police are too focused with minor offences. Five years! What a bunch of silly plonkers!- Cllr Chris Cooke, Tamworth, UK

  • If the teenager has stuck a knife in the man and seriously injured or killed him, he would have been called an ASBO, get a suspended jail sentence and then paid for the lodging he didn't get by serving his time. I'm surprised the man didn't get an extra year or two for abusing a hedgehog. The UK has become a real laughing-stock... except it's not funny.- Charles, UK

  • Five years for this 'crime' seems rather odd when recently two youths who kicked man to death received only four years. Good old Blair 'tough on crime'- G.Ware, York Yorks

  • He should have plunged a knife into his victim's heart. You only get two years for that.- Mike A., Channel Islands

The interesting thing about this is that there is a large number of comments pointing out how stupid these people are. For example,

  • And after reading the comment by Councillor Chris Cooke of Tamworth we find out who the real 'plonker' as he puts it is or does he blame the goings on in New Zealand on the British police as well?- Dave Kempton, Gloucester

I thought this was strange to see so many people castigating their fellow tut-tutters. Now, the Tamworth councillor seems to be familiar. Could he be the same Cllr Chris Cooke who has this interesting site, and who did a bit of pro bono leaflet work for the local BNP candidate. Not that he's in any way connected to them! The anti-BNP site at Lancaster Unity have their own take on this.

He also seems to have come up on the radar of Stormfront, the uber-Nazis (I won't link to them but if you google 'small penis Fascist knuckle-scrapers' you'll no doubt come across their filth.

  • So I hope when the BNP come to power (note - "when"!) that they allow themselves to dig a bit deeper into such things as the NHS than just the pay of the top guys. The whole edificial empire needs an overhaul. Cllr. Chris Cooke

I was still wondering about the flak he got from DM scribblers. Then I came across this on the Press Complaints Commission site:

  • Complainant Name:Councillor Chris Cooke
    Clauses Noted: 1
    Publication: Daily Mail
    Complaint:
    Councillor Chris Cooke of Tamworth complained that a comment he had posted after an online article contained an offensive sentence which he had not written.
    Resolution:
    The complaint was resolved when the newspaper – which investigated the matter thoroughly and indicated that its records showed that the comments arrived in the same form in which they were posted – removed the comments from its website.

Maybe just a coincidence. And the band played, 'believe me if you like'.

14 comments:

Cllr Chris said...

Hi Eric

Well ....... we seem to like the same sort of music.

Guess that's about as far as it goes.

Just wanted to say how pleased I was that you have put up a link to my website. Sadly there has only been one visitor so far - you by any chance was it? Noticed there wasn't anybody else on your site just now - and remarkably few comments (none at all actually. Hope this one gees things up for you!). So maybe there won't be a flood of the curious clicking on the link. Pity, as you and your freinds do seem to work so hard keeping tabs on me. You deserve better!

I like the style though - innuendo, ridicule, not too much truth and suchlike - you know, typical "anti-fascist" stuff. Say hello to Denise G. for me! :-)

Must get back to being serious again now. Thanks for the break.

Regards

Chris

eric the fish said...

One can never know if

Herr Kris
danke schoen fuer deine.....

oh if we must....

1. My sitemeter does not work. Sometimes more than 2 people visit.

2. Friends is the correct spelling. i'm worried about whether you would pass the Citizen Test. I'll give you lessons not liaisons for a nominal fee.

3. Denise G ? Figment of your Max moseley imagination? Surely not.

4. Why not be honest about your BNP support?

5. I do not give a Thatcher's compassion about you. You are sad. You will get more hits than me because of that.

6. You mention 'typical anti-Fascist stuff'. Tell that to those who lost their lives or have family who were killled in the fight against this.

Cooke, the gauntlet is there - do YOU....

i. Deny the holocaust
ii. Deny you have connections with the BNP (not a few leaflet excursions)
iii. Deny that the BNP has prominent Holocaust-deniers in its membership
iv. why do you continue to post on the Daily Mail site when you took them to task over
iii. three, free, freedom... Cllr Chris, you are free to post here. (You're right that nobody else does, but there are better blogs to destroy your brethren's argument. )
My blog is for me; it satisfies my Beatle-driven mission for peace.
You like my music; I also appreciate Wagner and have visited Cathedrals and churches used by Bach and Luther.

Pretty sad, Chris, that you only merit a mocking note on this site rather than a full page article in The Observer.

eric the fish said...

A fellow Beatle fan has just emailed me. You may like this music but you preach the politics of hate - the opposite of John, Paul, George and Ringo.

You also fail to acknowledge that you made an arse of yourself by thinking the hedgehog story was in the UK.

As you will see by the stupid story about Cab, innit - the Daily Mail will priny any old crap as long as it has a go at Labour or immigrants. Councillor Chris, are you sure you are so pure?

Cllr Chris said...

Eric

You write so much! How can I keep up??

OK - here goes.

1. Yes you are right. I have lived in Germany - though it was as a child and my German is by no means as good as yours. All the Germans I met seemed to be very nice people. Guess the war must have killed of all their fascists that you hate so much

2. Sorry - "freinds" was a typo (proves I'm human??). Was this a facist typo? How can you ever forgive me?

3. Touche? I have no idea who Max Moseley is. Wikapediaed this - Max Rufus Mosley (born 1940, London , England ) is currently serving his fourth term as president of the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA), a non-profit association
Is that supposed to mean something to me?? Strange you might not know Denise G. though? You should google her - I'm sure you'd have a lot in common.

4. But, Eric, I AM honest about my BNP support. It's all here -

http://www.chris-cooke.co.uk/independentorbnp.html

- on my website. Let's face it - go through that site and you'd find out an incredible amount about the sort of person I am. Why haven't you done this yet - it might have saved you some of your questions/challanges??

5. I expect I'd share a similar view about Thatcher as you do (except I'm sure I'd give much better reasons for thinking her such a disaster for this country).

6. I use the word "anti-fascist" in the same (non)sense (way) as you do - to describe ordinary decent people who can see what an unmitigated disaster the EU and unlimited immigration has been for this country (Oh dear! those are BNP policies too, aren't they!). In fact from where I'm standing it appears that you "anti-fascists" are far closer to fascist behaviour in the tricks and vindictiveness you use against anybody you think supports the BNP (ie - me - crikey you couldn't get a much more caring and innocuous person than me!!).

And now - Pick Up The Guantlet Time!!!

i) The holocaust happened. Hitler's 6 million murdered Jews, a hell of a load of Gipsies (my wife's one of those!!), homosexuals, disabled, retarded etc. What do you want me to say here? That it didn't quite happen in quite the way we are supposed to believe? Let's just say that I keep an open mind - unlike some I could name! What I can't understand (and you must understand I am not accusing you of any hidden political leanings here) is why people like you never, ever refer to the 20 million murdered by Stalin. Do you deny that happened?

ii) Do I "have connections with the BNP apart from a few leaflet excursions?". Let me see. There's a very nice BNP lady candidate here in Tamworth. You can find out all about her on my website though (link above). Otherwise - what are you getting at here?? I'm hiding nothing. Do I have "links"? Well - if I do I'm sure I don't know about them. I can't think of any relations I know about in the BNP. Maybe that will come?

iii) I'm told the BNP does have Holocaust deniers in it. Sites like yours tell me this - all the time. Personally I wouldn't know. They tell me Nick Griffin himself used to be one. From what I understand Mr Griffin accepts that he was wrong in as much as those were the numbers of people killed. He is less convinced about the numbers killed by the various methods of extermination. My open mind tells me this sounds reasonable if there is historical evidence available to suggest this. No?

iv) Why do I continue to post of the Daily Mail?? Because that complaint related to a comment about "Jewish vermin" or some such thing. It was so obviously out of context with the rest of the comment - it even had an "@" in it that made it looked ridiculous as well as being very offensive. It was also so ludicrously not me - how could I say such a thing when I am part Jewish myself? (There you are - you really didn't know that did you? Makes your other aspersions against me look rather a sight more stupid now doesn't it!! You really should check out my website??) The Daily Mail was very polite about it all - my complaint related more to the time they took to take it down - because I just knew and expected some little anti-fascist fish would be looking for exactly such a comment to slap me down with. Congratulations - you did it!!

You did another "iii" which doesn't seem to make sense. But don't worry - I'll forgive your "typo". I do believe you are, after all, only human and quite capable of being wrong.

OK - now the nicer part. I'm a number one Beatle fan. Have all their stuff (some a number of times over!). Songs like "All You Need Is Love" and "Give Peace A Chance" (OK - I know that was Lennon!) I grew up to their songs and it made my character. I've never liked bullies. I don't like thugs. I don't like liars, cowards, back-stabbers or others who set out to hurt people. I like the truth.

Everything I am is an open book. Go on! Cast some more aspersions. Find something out about me that I haven't already told you!

BTW - I also like to while away some time listening to Classic FM. Especially when I need to relax.

There you are. Everything answered and you now know far more about me that you deserve. I of course know next to nothing about you - and that's as much as I'd ever expect to know about you.

I do look forward to my full page article in the Observer. Although I might have preferred the Independent?

Kind regards

Chris
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eric the fish said...

Cllr Chris, thanks for the reply. You must have RSI like me.
Kudos for taking the time and trouble (I worry about any future porcine escapees in Tamworth if the town's 'greatest blogger' is answering facetious pieces from the People's Republic of Merseyside (twinned with woolly liberals everywhere).

I shall reply in full once I've recovered from the sulphites contained in my wine, occasioned by a less-coherent-than-Cllr-Chris comment on the most recent rant.

Five Chinese Crackers said...

Hope you don't mind me jumping in for a second here, Eric. I'm interested in some of this.

Cllr Chris - some of your answers seem evasive and look a bit like non-denial denials.

For instance - what does 'let's just say I have an open mind' about the holocaust happening 'in the way we're supposed to believe' actually mean? What is the way we're supposed to believe the holocaust happened? What things do you keep an open mind about? Your answer could mean pretty much anything. The same is true of what you say about what Nick Griffin and other BNP representatives believe. It's all wonderfully vague - Nick Griffin is 'less convinced about the numbers killed by the various methods of extermination' is he? But that's what holocaust deniers are less convinced about.

The same is true for your answer about links to the BNP. You bluster by saying you don't know what Eric means before saying you're not aware of any links. I'm guessing Eric will clarify what he meant by 'links', but I'm pretty sure he means more than just having relations in the BNP, which is one of the things you imply he means.

You're similarly vague on your website that you claim will make everything clear. You say:

Notice how all these correspondents deliberately want to confuse “supporting the BNP” (ie supporting the right of the BNP to exist and fight in fair and free elections) with “supporting the BNP” (ie - supporting all their policies and political activities).

But you do rather more than support the BNP's right to exist and fight in fair and free elections, since you write and distribute leaflets on their behalf at the very least - and serving MPs and Ministers do less than 'support all their party's policies and political activities', since they sometimes vote against their party. Just about everyone in the country would fit in between the two extremes you describe - even me.

The difference is that I think it's the BNP that make elections unfair by distributing lies - like the one about Africans being offered up to £50,000 to move to Kent, or the one about them being respectable now and not just the same bunch of thugs they always were. Honest, guv.

Cllr Chris said...

OK - Don't know who you are Five Chinese Crackers (mind if I call you 5cc - sounds appropriate?) - but you know exactly who I am. Usual scenario.

I suppose a part of you hopes that I won't answer this just so you can make out you were the one who "got/exposed/caught me"! Another part of you wants me to answer because you feel it will give you more ammo for the future. Oh dear! Guess I'm just a sucker. Never mind! Here goes.

1. Having an open mind, 5cc, is nothing like the same as being "evasive" or "non-denial denying". The holocaust happened - that is what I believe - if someone wants to tell me that it didn't then I would listen to them - I certainly wouldn't want to bawl them down and lock them up! Are we clear on that so far? I do have an open mind about how it may have happened, the chain of command, where partial and ultimate responsibilities lay, to what extent it was gas chambers, bullets, beatings and torture, starvation, untreated diseases, etc. I can't speak for Nick Griffin (even though you seem to be able to?) - but it wouldn't surprise me to know that he thinks this way too. Call it denial if you want to. But people like you frighten me. Whilst screaming "fascist" at others you want to deny them the opportunity to question. Can't you see how dangerous that is to a free society? Or is society only free in your view when it is run as you want it? There. Hope that one is clear now?

2. "Links to the BNP". For Heaven's sakes! What are you alluding to? If you know something then spill it. If not then I really don't know how to make myself clearer - I accept all the links to the BNP I've already said exist. I don't want to hide any of them. I have no worries at all about that. The BNP people I do know are generally older people, respectable, obviously caring and intelligent. If you don't want to believe that people like this can exist in the BNP then fine - delude yourself. But any other links? No. If you think that is not true then say so. Tell me what it is. I'll admit it if it is true - but if it is true then you can be sure it will be an honest forgetful omission which changes nothing. Clear enough? But casting innuendo and aspersions are your stock in trade here aren't they? Shame on you!

3. "Supporting the BNP". The article on my website you refer to was about a local by-election taking place here in Tamworth. A dirty tricks leaflet from the Anti-Fascists (that's the people you support) tried to smear the candidate by association to muggers, murderers and like villians (you could actually do the same to anybody in any political party). This leaflet was so far beyond the pale - and put out so close to the election day that they thought nobody could respond quick enough. Well I did respond - and I was easily able to tear that nasty little leaflet to shreds. And I take full responsibility (or is that credit?) for it. And of course that has what has really got the Anti-fascist's goat isn't it? The fact is that their little game here in this Tamworth by-election was blown wide open. Just see this web page - http://www.chris-cooke.co.uk/uafleaflet&myresponseleaflet.html - even though you should have seen it already of course. As I said before I've known this BNP lady candidate for some time - she lives close by. Personally, she would probably have got my vote - but in the leaflet I put out I only attacked the Anti-fascists and their leaflet - it deliberately did not try to influence the election any more than to say that I would be happy to work with any of the four candidates standing should they get elected. That was fair. Read the leaflets! I was trying to be fair in a situation made deliberately unfair by that Anti-fascist leaflet. Being fair was a damn sight more than what the Anti-fascists were doing. Anyway - the fact is that those sorts of "Anti-fascist" leaflets have been proven to be delivered by other political parties (all of them!) against the BNP in other by-elections - and quite illegally in election law. I'm quite sure in my own mind, although there is no proof on this occasion, that this happened in Tamworth too. Anyway, why am I re-saying all this? It's all on my website - either take it or leave it.

4. "But you do .....support the BNP". I'm quite clear that a BNP candidate may well get my vote at an election. You want to make something of that? That vote is not cast in stone as there are candidates and candidates - as I am only too well aware! You may be surprised to hear that I am actively supporting a current Labour candidate (it's the man not his party issue here) - is that so terrible too?? People in Tamworth know very well that I want out of the EU and they know that I want an end to mass immigration. As a matter of policy which party would you suggest I vote for?

5. "Africans for Kent". sic. Get it right - please. It was Africans for Essex! Anyway - rather than wear out my fingers here's the BNP version at this link (alright to link to the BNP website? You won't mind going on the site will you? After all I go onto the Anti-fascist sites to find out how they think too.) http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/02/28/the-truth-about-the-bnp/ You'll probably have to cut and paste as there doesn't seem to be a way to hyper-link. You'll find it at item 20 (xx). This is a page the BNP have set up to counter some of the smears against them.

6. So you see I really do have to smile when you say it is the BNP making elections unfair with all their "lies". I do know a little about election law. Putting lies into an election leaflet is an illegal election practice. However if the Anti-fascists put out a lying leaflet to disparage a BNP candidate (and not specifically support any other candidate) during an election then that is NOT illegal - not unless election candidates or their helpers deliver that leaflet. That's how these anti-fascists get away with it.

BTW, 5cc, when you call the BNP the "thugs they always were" - do you mean like the brawling Neil Kinnock or John Prescott? Although the difference there of course is that the police wouldn't dream of arresting those two upstanding pillars of society whereas it's open season on any BNP guy who dares to defend himself from physical attack. BNP people are regularly getting arrested simply for delivering leaflets - none of which ever lead to charges. Simply because they bare the name BNP. You should be appalled at this - if only that it could perhaps become a case of " .... then they came for me"

Now 5cc, I suppose you'll be happy that you've managed to make me put in such a long reply. Well - OK - but I'm used to all the typing. And I am clear in what I think and believe. Are you?

Chris
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Five Chinese Crackers said...

Hi Eric,

I tried to post a reply to Cllr Chris about a week ago but it's not appeared. Has it just been eaten by the internets?

Five Chinese Crackers said...

Eric - here's a repost since the last one was eaten by teh evil internets.

Cllr Chris - You're welcome to call me 5cc if you like, although it might be nice if you focused on what I said and laid off the speculation about my motives. That kind of stuff tends to distract from the actual discussion to address things other people who aren't actually me might think.

As for my *actual* motives, I couldn't have cared less if you replied to me or not - I just wanted to demonstrate for anyone reading that your answers were pretty vague and didn't actually say very much. Same with your last one.

1. You still haven't told us what you think 'the way we're supposed to believe' the holocaust happened actually is. You make some references to having an open mind (whatever that means) about the chain of command, etc - but holocaust deniers have problems with those things too. Holocaust denial isn't limited to saying the holocaust didn't happen. From the wikipedia article on it:

"Holocaust denial is the claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II—usually referred to as the Holocaust—did not occur in the manner and to the extent described by current scholarship.

Key elements of this claim are the rejection of any of the following: that the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting Jews and people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people; that between five and seven million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies; and that genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers."

Your answer could still include some of those things. As for me knowing more about Nick Griffin's thoughts than you - that's a strange comment to make since the thing I said about what he thinks was a direct quote from you.

And I don't want anyone imprisoned for denying the holocaust either, nor did I scream 'fascist'. Here's an example of where guessing about my motives takes you away from what I've said towards arguments made by other people who aren't actually me.

2. I'm not alluding to anything here. I only pointed out that your answer to Eric about links to the BNP was vague and looked evasive. That isn't casting aspersions and innuendo, it's requesting a clearer answer to a direct question.

3. Your claim about tearing the UAF leaflet to shreds is somewhat overstated. There isn't space to go into the whole thing here, but as an example - point 1 in your response says that the UAF claims the BNP is a Hitler admiring, Nazi organisation. The UAF leaflet actually says that there are several documentaries that expose the BNP as such, which is a different thing entirely. Are there documentaries that do this? You've avoided that question, specifics about the party's origins and a specific claim about the Channel 5 documentary 'Neo-Nazi Hate Rock'.

On the subject of whether or not the documentaries the UAF allude to exist or not, here are a couple:

BNP: Under the Skin
The Secret Agent
Young, Nazi and Proud

And since the UAF leaflet talks about how the BNP is nasty underneath its posing, don't you think its a little naive to use the BNP's own website to prove otherwise?

Your other answers do much of the same, cherrypicking bits to argue against and ignoring other parts.

4. That's actually a misquote. I actually said that you do rather more than support the BNP's right to exist and fight in fair and free elections. I also pointed out that just about anyone fits within the parameters you defined. You were being vague. As for who you should vote for - pretty much anyone other than the BNP, since their stance goes rather further than 'ending mass immigration'. There's also the stuff revealed in the documentaries I linked to above.

5. So it was Essex rather than Kent. My mistake. The link you posted doesn't do you any favours though, since it includes another lie.

Here's what actually happened. Some London boroughs offered all their residents of all ethnicities in Local Authority accommodation incentives to buy properties outside the borough. The BNP produced an article in the Dagenham Patriot with the headline 'Africans for Essex' as a response. In the link you provide says that this was okay because the majority of people who took advantage of the scheme were African. Actual research into the subject showed that only 30 people moved to Barking and Dagenham as a result of the scheme, and only six were black African. Six is not the majority of 30. Plus, the average payment was £16,000, which is far below all the figures your link claims.

The defence also glosses over other claims made by the original article (page 8 of the link) - that Hackney Council called their scheme 'Africans for Essex', that the Government offer £50,000 and a 75% mortgage and this point:

"Would you like £50,000 to buy your own home? Homeowners, did you get £50,000 to buy yours? If you're white and British then fat chance!"

Of the 30 people who moved to Barking and Dagenham as a result of the council's schemes, 9 were white.

Your link also had the added bonus of making me queasy when I read the section about disapproving of mixed marriages.

6. As for smiling about the claims of the BNP's lies - see above.

When I say the BNP are thugs they always were, I don't mean like Neil Kinnock or John Prescott. I mean like Alan Bailey, David Enderby and Ian Meller. The last one was arrested for having an offensive weapon and was by all accounts intent on attacking a gay pride march with his 15 strong gang. A little different from defending yourself against someone throwing something at you by punching them in the face.

You will always find more people accused of crimes linked to other parties because there are thousands of them. There are what, 50 BNP councillors? The important question is how many people convicted of serious offences still represent their original party, and how much of a proportion of representatives they are. (Liars, Buggers and Thieves - which you link to on your site - includes people expelled from their party, people only accused of crimes and people found innocent).

As for BNP people being arrested for distributing leaflets just because they have BNP on them - hogwash. I need evidence for that before I believe a word of it.

5cc

Cllr Chris said...

One more thing - (to the other comments I made that have not yet been published).

You didn't believe BNP leafleters were arrested simply for putting leaflets out. Evidence - this following comment - from this website (http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=73226328016633&mkt=en-GB&lang=en-GB&w=3dc4d254,8033d926&FORM=CVRE9)

BNP to sue South Wales Police
Posted by Arden Forester at 10:51 AM
I do wish New Labour hadn't given the police forces of this country such a burden with their political correctness nonsense and their Stasi-like approach to dealing with people they can't abide. Instead of debating with the BNP or tackling head-on the political weaknesses of their case, New Labour acts like a grumpy dandy caught out with a dirty shirt. It's all humbug and high-falluting posturing.

The BNP is a legal political party. They registered accordingly with the Electoral Commission set up by Blair. But instead of countering BNP policies, New Labour gets the police to round up their canvassers and chuck them in jail for a couple of hours.

Now we arrive at the ridiculous position of five leafleters suing the South Wales Police. BNP Deputy Leader Simon Darby said, “Normally they have a look at the leaflet, check it and maybe take names and addresses. In this case they were arrested. Obviously, they were not very happy about it. They were asking all kinds of questions about our movements in South Wales. Certainly there are good grounds for compensation.” The BNP compensated for this? How much, I wonder, if it happens?

The police have no business rounding up people at election times. Leave that kind of stuff to Mugabe! All the moron who authorised this is doing is giving a potential windfall to the BNP and giving them the opportunity to act as the browbeaten innocents!

New Labour - New Morons!


And not exactly a pro BNP website too. Happy now?

Chris
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Five Chinese Crackers said...

So - two years after being arrested for public order offences, one (or maybe more) BNP members decide to sue the police, claiming they were arrested only for distributing leaflets with BNP written on them, despite being allowed to distribute leaflets for weeks before the arrests. All of which presumably had BNP written on them.

And they just happen to decide to sue in the lead up to local elections. That's fortunate.

I think I'll stay sceptical about these claims until we know the outcome of the court case. If indeed it ever happens.

You might need to repost your last message since Eric seems to have been having problems with the comment facility.

cllr chris said...

5cc

I can't be bothered to repost my earlier comments. Why should I if something as provable as the BNP members getting arrested for leafleting - which you initially described as hogwash and demanded proof - and I gave you the absolute proof ..... and you now still do not accept??

Indeed you twist it further and say they only did it "in the lead up to the local elections". Well I've only seen publicity for suing the SW police after these latest elections. Can you prove it was publicised before?

You must know that this being the BNP if the authorities could have they would have had them all prosecuted - but even above the fact no offence had been committed, what's the point of prosecuting a bunch of middle and old age pensioners? That really wouldn't fit the normal media-generated BNP image would it? Perhaps they thought 13 hours in prison was enough to intimidate them into not leafleting for the BNP again?

Let's face it you'll never be able accept a single word I say. It'll always be sarcasm and raising new issues. (Didn't this thread start with a hedgehog incident?). It will always racour with you that people who "claim to be Independent" would (openly!)say they would vote for the BNP (wouldn't matter if they vote for any other party though would it?).

I've been as reasonable as I can - but of course you'll always have your answer. Nice to converse with you 5cc - wonder who you were?

Yes, 5cc, I'm giving up.

Five Chinese Crackers said...

Cllr Chris

Sorry you're throwing in the towel - but to answer your points:

"Why should I if something as provable as the BNP members getting arrested for leafleting - which you initially described as hogwash and demanded proof - and I gave you the absolute proof ..... and you now still do not accept??"

You haven't provided absolute proof that BNP members have been arrested for delivering leaflets. You've provided proof that once (not the 'regularly' you originally claimed) some BNP members were arrested for public order offences while leafleting. You've only shown their claim that it was because they were distributing BNP leaflets. That's not the same as proof that they were.

"Indeed you twist it further and say they only did it "in the lead up to the local elections". Well I've only seen publicity for suing the SW police after these latest elections. Can you prove it was publicised before?"

Actually, you already provided the proof in the very link you posted, which is dated 21 April 2008. It's here if you've forgotten it. It references this story on icWales dated 2 March 2008. So I can actually show evidence you've seen that shows the story being reported in the lead up to local elections. There's also a reference to the story on the BNP site dated 2 March. In fact, I can't turn up a single reference to the story from after the elections in a Google search, but maybe you've seen something I haven't.

"You must know that this being the BNP if the authorities could have they would have had them all prosecuted - but even above the fact no offence had been committed, what's the point of prosecuting a bunch of middle and old age pensioners?"

You seeing something I haven't would explain this quote too, since I've seen nothing that references the ages of the men involved. There are all sorts of reasons police might arrest someone and release them without charge. We won't know what they might be until we see the results of the court case - which is why I'll remain sceptical until the results - if indeed they ever appear.

"It will always racour with you that people who "claim to be Independent" would (openly!)say they would vote for the BNP (wouldn't matter if they vote for any other party though would it?)."

We're not talking about voting for other parties though, are we? We're talking about helping with campaigns and writing, printing and distributing leaflets on their behalf.

Five Chinese Crackers said...

A final postscript to this discussion.

I just realised something else about Cllr Chris' claim that he hadn't seen any publicity about BNP people supposedly arrested for distributing leaflets before the local elections.

Not only was the link he posted as proof dated before the local elections, but the original post he made that first mentioned the arrests was dated before the elections too. Double d'oh.